I received the following message from the ten minute clip of this lesson on YouTube.
Please post the rest of the lesson. This is so detailed and helping me to really understand. I wonder about this all the time and can’t find teachings that are complete. Every time I have asked a preacher about this all I hear is “Don’t worry about that, it doesn’t happen anymore.” I want to understand and stop wondering. Thank you for this lesson, hope you can add more. God bless you.
This is why I started using Vimeo for my videos. I don’t have to chop them up into ten minute segments. Here it is in its entirety, as preached for the Commerce church of Christ in their ’08 Gospel Meeting. Let me know what you think.
Are People Baptized In The Holy Spirit Today? from Norm Fields on Vimeo.
In His Service,
Norm
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Please give you a passage that states that a person gets into Christ through faith alone?
Try verse 8, and while your at it notice in 6 that I am already seated with Him in the heavenly places as far as he’s concerned – if you wish, continue to use your own might to maintain your salvation – I’ll rest in His Promises. Also, notice 10, that I am HIS WORKMANSHIP created for good works which HE PLANNED (they are not MY good works, they are HIS GOOD WORKS).
Ephesians 2:4-10 (New American Standard Bible)
BUT GOD, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD when we were dead in our transgressions, HE MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God; 9NOT as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which GOD PREPARED beforehand so that we would walk in them.”
Huh….and baptism was not mentioned anywhere – did the Ephesians say….”wow, he did not tell us how he made us alive together with Christ….hey Rueben, run over to Phillipi and let’s borrow their letter to see if we can piece this thing together. Saved by grace through faith, not of yourselves, as a gift, not a result of works? I’m confused…..hurry back Rueben!
The answer to you question is simple enough for those who have been granted eyes to see; and to those who understand the correct interpretation of “eis” in 2:38, which would naturally be consistant with it’s same proper use in Matthew 5:11. Really…was John’s Baptism “in order for them to recieve repentence? Or “eis” because of repentence.
Why after 3 years of blasting the Pharisees relative to their OUTWARD appearance and corrupted hearts vs. INWARD purity and change of disposition in their heart; would Christ make an outward sign – water baptism – the point at which salvation occurs! Clearly absurd! Try some consistency and quit treating scripture like a zigsaw puzzle.
Steve,
Clearly you jest. You’re not really trying to twist Ephesians 2:5-10 fit into your mold are you? Of course you are, because that’s all you know. I’m so sorry for the teaching you have received. This is why the majority of the world is in such sad shape, because they know not the Scriptures – that is – they don’t know how to harmonize them.
NOWHERE in that context, does it tell you how to get “INTO” Christ. I asked a simple question – “how does a person get INTO Christ where no condemnation is located?” (Rom. 8:1) How does a person get INTO Christ where God’s grace is located? (2 Tim. 2:1). How does a person get INTO Christ where ALL spiritual blessings are located? (Eph. 1:3). How does a person get INTO Christ that they may sit together in heavenly places? (Eph. 2:6).
You haven’t answered it yet. We are all still waiting oh wise one.
You want to use Ephesians 2:5-10, so lets use it in its proper context. Please look at verses 5-6.
Your next block of questions. WHEN were these Ephesian Christians made alive? WHEN were these Ephesian Christians raised up?
You assume that you have me because baptism is not specifically mentioned in the text. Have you ever heard of implication? Most Bible doctrine is built upon the doctrine of implication. But this might be too deep for you, so we won’t go there right now, unless of course you tell me you understand implication and can demonstrate how it works.
I look forward to hearing from you again.
Steve,
I’m sorry that I left out ‘eis’ a typical Baptism position, having to use the least found definition of a word, shades of the J.W.’s don’t you think?
To use your denominations definition”eis” = because of, let’s make application of that definition where we find that Greek word used, and see if it fits. hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jesus while instituting the Lord’s Supper, told His disciples, concerning the cup, “For this is My blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many FOR (because of) the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). WOW! Jesus didn’t have to die afterall, because sins were already remitted!
Isn’t that what Jesus would be saying there according to your definition of the word ‘eis?” My blood is shed because sins have been remitted. That’s what it would imply – past tense. So in other words, God was already forgiving sins, but He sent His Son to die at Calvary anyway. hmmmmmmmm.
And by the way, the Ephesians were not confused at all by what Paul meant, they understood the concept of ‘faith’ – it is people today who twist the Scriptures, not wanting to understand the Bible concept of ‘faith.’ They are the confused ones.
OK, you’ve convince me – is there one of your denominational branches in the Nashville, Tennessee area where I can get baptized again?
Oh, and I am well aware of the Church of Christ’s Doctrine of Implication (it was adopted after rejecting the Doctrine of Inspriration and the Doctrines of Grace); and you guys rival only the Scribes and Pharisee’s in it’s perverted over-use.
I think I recall mentioning earlier that verse from Ecclisates that speaks to “futility of all futilities?” Forgive my sin for (as a result of) indulging this much too long!
Steve,
You are just too funny. lol.
I’m not sure what denominations there are in Nashville, but I do know that the Lord’s true non-denominational church is there. But baptizing you at this point would be vain since your heart is not really in it. lol
I also love the way you throw out accusations as if they are truth, without ever backing them up. You have yet to answer my questions, which means that you can’t, which makes me think of you as being like the chief priests and elders who would not answer Jesus when they found themselves trapped (Matthew 21:25-30).
Who said we don’t believe in inspiration and grace? Just because we also believe in implication, does not take away from the other facts. I guess you don’t believe in figures of speech, logic, rational thinking, and such like either. Things that God created, including implication.
If you don’t believe in implication then how did you know you were to have faith? I would love to hear and answer to that one.
Mike: “You have yet to answer my questions, which means that you can’t…..”
Steve: “You must be incorrectly implying that based on your Doctrine of Assumption”
Mike: “…..logic, rational thinking, and such like either.
Steve: “Logic and reason is what prevents the professors at Cal-Berkley and MIT, along with Ted Turner and Oprah from believing…..Logic and reason prevents belief in the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, and the Ascention, etc.”
Mike: “If you don’t believe in implication then how did you know you were to have faith?
Steve: I did not need implication or assumption for faith, as I relied on the Holy Spirit and the Free Gift (Eph.2…..and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God). Corinthians 2:14 (NKJV) “But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED,” which is exactly where all this futility began!
See you in Heaven (if you don’t falter)…..good-bye until then!
Steve,
I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were of the welfare salvation clan.
I am not familiar with the welfare plan – my salvation comes by the same means that justified Abraham and King David; and I am quite comfortable with that fine company.
Romans 4:1-8 (NKJV)
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”
Welfare Salvation – where you don’t have to work for what you want!(2 Thess. 3:10).
I realize that those of your clan are in denial, because in actuality you have already done a work and you have done so through implication! OH NO!
As for Abraham, again, you do greatly err because you know not the Scriptures. Abraham was NEVER justified by faith alone. And you can twist the Scriptures until they scream, but it still will not change that fact.
As for David in verse 6 of that text – those works apply to the works of the Moscial law, quite different than what is required by God today.
This is the problem with people who hate logic, reason, implication, figures of speech, harmonizing the entire Bible, etc. they just cannot get it. And most refuse to remove the veil over their eyes, just like the Jews (2 Cor. 3:13-15).
And Amen to verse 8 – “Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin”
The question is, when, and to whom does the LORD not impute sin?
When a person is found “IN” Christ and remains “IN” Christ. But you won’t answer that question, because it leads to a place you don’t want to go. Therefore, in your case, you can’t be blessed.
I”m truly sorry for that Steve. But it doesn’t have to remain that way, all you have to do is strip yourself of your foolish pride, and submit to the will of God, not the will of man.