Norm

Preacher for the Bawcomville church of Christ, host of Bible Q-n-A and several web sites, web designer, twitterer and blogger.

46 responses to “Baptism – Don’t Die Without It!”

  1. Mike

    Randy,

    It would be nice if you would give Scriptural reference to the points you make, so that others can read and understand what you are saying. I’m not saying that inference is the only thing found in Scripture, there are also explicit statements (example: The 10 commandments or David sending Uriah to the front to be killed).

  2. Randy

    I’m referring to Psalm 51 — David’s prayer of repentance. I thought maybe you would infer that–sorry.

    David asks that his sin be blotted out. He acted outside of God plans, but God still forgave him without shedding an animals blood.

    This is a wonderful hallmark of forgiveness from the Lord. If one truly repent, He removes our sins from us as far as the east is from the west. (Psalm 103:12) We are free to move forward as if the sin never existed at all.

    That release from guilt is what makes David able to promise something back to the Lord. After the joy of God’s salvation is restored, David says; “then I will teach transgressors Your ways, and sinners shall be converted to You.” (Verse 13)

    Are you contending that God never has acted outside of His plans?

  3. Mike

    Randy,

    I just wanted to be absolutely sure of the Scripture you were referring to. Let me get this straight. In Psalm 51 David repented and his sin is blotted out without having a shed an animals blood? Where in the Scriptures did you ever get that idea?
    Just because a text does not go to the length of describing everything a person did, does not mean that it was not done. Yes, David did repent for the sin committed against Uriah. But he was also required by the Law to offer a sacrifice for his sin, otherwise God would not forgive him. That was the purpose behind the Old Law Training sessions. To teach men how horrible sin is, and for them to see first hand that a death had to occur, blood had to be shed because of their sin.
    Am I contending that God never acts outside His plans? Absolutely! Because God cannot go against His nature, His character. He cannot contradict His justice, anymore than He can His mercy, Love, grace, righteousness, truth, etc. If He requires one Israelite to offere sacrifice for sin in order to be forgiven, then He required it of David also (Acts 10:34).

  4. Randy

    16 For thou desirest not a sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
    17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

  5. Mike

    Randy,Are you really going to make such an argument? Psalm 51 is a Psalm of petitence. It is not all to be taken literally. David is speaking from godly sorrow, realizing the horrible nature of the sin he has committed. He understands the purpose behind the sacrifices and the law itself is to teach not only the Hebrews, but all men that God is looking for that contrite heart, a heart that hates sin as much as God does. But David’s realization of this did not negate God’s requirement for sacrifice. The same is true of Saul – yet Saul thought sacrifice was the key, he didn’t understand as David did. However Saul did not have that contrite heart as David did. (1 Samuel 15:22) “To obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.”
    God required BOTH under the Old Law as David goes on to say in vs. 18 of Psalm 51 – coupled with his contrite heart “Thou shalt be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offerings, and whole burnt offerings: then shall they offer bullocks upon Thine altar.”
    God was not looking for Ritual – which is what the Jews did during the days of the Judges, and later after Rehoboam became king. God has always required a contrite heart, a heart that contains godly sorrow, a heart of love and submission, BEFORE He would accept the sacrifice. (Matthew 5:21-24).
    Randy, God has never been a respector of persons, that would go against His character. We can’t pull passages out of context with what other passages tell us, and try to make an exception – that is not honest Bible interpretation. I would hope you would agree.

  6. Randy

    You and Norm make some good points. Thanks for addressing my comment. What you both have stated here makes sense. Again, thanks.

  7. Mike

    Randy,

    No problem, glad to help. That’s what we are here for.

  8. jhade

    thanks Norm for your ideas that a person must be baptized first in order to get saved. I guess the Bible doesn’t say that. Romans 10;13- For whosoever shall CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall CALL on the NAME of the Lord shall be save.’ doesn’t say here to be baptized first to get saved but it says call.’ Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye HEARD the word of truth,the gospel of you salvation: In whom also after that ye BELIEVED ye were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.” here again we are not sealed with the Holy Spirit by water baptism but when we TRUST and BELIEVED. Acts 10:43-To him give all the prophets witness,that through his name whosoever BELIEVETH in him shall RECEIVE REMISSION of sin. So baptism is not necessary for remission of sin. Romans 6. is not talking about the baptism but it talks about the newness of life. And Romans 6 is not about the water baptism neither. It is about a person who believed in Christ must baptized to His death 6: 3-6, Galatians 2:20, 5:24, Matthew 16:24 Which is mean, if a person who in Christ must die daily. In other words He must baptized in Christ death daily. It would be contradictory of Peter to proclaim salvation in Christ only; then state you have to be baptized to saved-Acts 4:12. John 3:14-16,18,36- That whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish,but have an eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begoten son ,that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish,but have an everlasting life. He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he BELIEVETH not is condemned already, because he hath not BELIEVED in the name of the begotten Son of God. ‘So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing is the word of God. Romans 10:17.
    No one ever saved by the water baptism, it is the blood of Christ shed on Calvary’s cross. John 1:12 But as many as RECEIVED him, to them he gave POWER to become the SONS of God, even to them that BELIEVE on his name. ‘ Here is very clear, we are became the sons of God when we believed on him-not man’s baptism.

  9. jhade

    Men saved without baptism. Their sins are forgiven without water baptism. Luke 7:47-50, Luke 18:42-43, Matthew 9:2-6.
    If a person trying to coerce that salvation is by water baptism, he is better than Saul of Tarsus and to the young ruler of Israel.
    These two men were failed because they were trying to get the salvation by works.
    Read. Luke 18:18-24..He kept the commandments but never inherit the kingdom of God.
    Saul of Tarsus- A Pharisee or a ruler of Israel. John 3;1, Acts 4:8, Acts 23:6, Acts 26:5. vs 6-7. Acts 22:3, 5:34, 26:4-5- he certainly have known the commandments. Phil.3:4-6- He lived in accord with the commandments of the law.
    Conclusion. Luke 18:23-And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful:for he was very rich. Not anger but sorrow. He genuinely wanted eternal life.H e loved himself more than others. He would miss eternal life if he did not choose Jesus. He wanted eternal life but not on those terms. So he walked away.
    Paul- Acts 9:5- Jesus confronted him in the road of Damascus.. Something had been eating at the man and he was having a hard time fighting against it. Match that words Jesus used as the rich man ruler walked away. Luke 18:24-How HARDLY shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
    When Paul was converted,he testified that he had kept the law (good works,baptism etc.) but had to count all that as worthless and do ONE THING in order to be saved and that was to KNOW Jesus Christ.-Philippians 3:7-10.

    There is one additional point to ponder here. When the young ruler came to Jesus he said, WHAT MUST I DO? and Jesus said ONE THING.

    Later, a man asked Paul, WHAT MUST I DO? And he answered , BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

    Believe on Jesus not to man’s water baptism…

    ARE GUYS BETTER THAN TO THESE TWO RULERS???

  10. Jeff B

    Acts 2:38- “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, AND BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

    Evidently it IS for the remission of sins.

    Mark 16:16- “He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED”

    Evidently the Bible DOES say that we are saved after baptism.

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