I receive a lot of comments from viewers of the “Rapture” videos I have on YouTube. Nearly all of those comments chide me for saying that the word “Rapture” is not found in the Bible. They usually say something along the lines of this one:
The word “rapture” is a term used to refer to believers being caught up to be with the Lord. Just because the exact word “rapture” isn’t used, doesn’t mean the event isn’t described in the bible[sic].
Here is another one that expresses the typical response:
The word rapture is a term to describe being “called up” or “taken up.” The word “rapture” is not found but the concept is certainly explained by the words “caught up,” etc. The word “trinity” does not appear in the Bible either, but the concept surely is explained. So, I guess this guy doesn’t believe in the trinity either.
This is one of the ways the Rapture apologist tries to make their doctrine sound palatable. When they say it means “called up” or “taken up,” in reference to 1 Thess. 4:17, people think, “that’s right, it says ‘caught up.’”
When they say that the word “rapture” simply means “caught up” they are referring to Latin word rapio, which does literally mean “caught up.” It is the word used to translate the Greek word in 1 Thess. 4:17 harpazō. What they are leaving out is that there is nothing in the Bible about a returning of those “caught up” in 1 Thess. 4:17 back to earth seven years later, which is taught in the Rapture doctrine. They are, in short, being deceitful by trying to imply that they are using the word “rapture” with the same literal meaning it had in the Latin translation of the New Testament. The fact is, when they use the word “rapture” they are referring to a very important part of their Premillennialist ideology. It means much, much more to them than just the idea of being caught up! So their criticism of me for saying that the word “rapture” is not found in the Bible is a little silly, really. In fact, it isn’t in the Bible – Greek or English, I guess if everyone still spoke Latin I wouldn’t be able to say that. But, what’s more, is that their idea of its relation to Premillennialism is not in the Bible either. Premillennialism itself is not in the Bible, much less their Rapture doctrine!
Personally, I find it really telling on their part that the best argument they can come up with to attack me over is that I said the word rapture is not in the Bible. Here is a link to the original lesson notes from the video they’re complaining about. It seems to me they should be more concerned over the fact that I exposed their fallacious arguments on nearly every crucial point of their doctrine. Yet, what do they complain about, I said the word rapture is not in the Bible.
Well, yesterday this comment was posted to the video:
This guy should get into a debate with respected theologians. He’d probably walk off the debate because of the TONS of verses in both the old and the new testament that refer to the rapture. This guy knows nothing about Scripture, and only uses reasoning as a majority of his argument. Totally inadequate!!! :)
So, I responded:
I accept your challenge to debate whoever you want to put up. Pick your man and put him in touch with me. I have been looking for someone who would actually be willing to stand for the Rapture doctrine that could make a rational argument. I would love to hear from them if you can find them. See if your “Pastor” would be willing to do it. I’ll be waiting to hear back from you soon.
This was his reply:
I don’t consider myself to be a respected theologian, but I do have a master’s in theology. I’m glad you offered my [sic] the opprotunity to prove you wrong. Give me one verse at a time, and I will respond to it, demonstrating clearly how that verse actually proves the rapture. Remember to use verses only – not reason influenced by tradition.
I don’t have a name yet, only a YouTube handle. I have offered the invitation to engage in a discussion on the Rapture doctrine here, on BibleQnA.com. We will pick up with this post and continue in the comment chain. I am offering my original lesson notes as the starting point for our discussion. I will leave it up to my opponent to choose whatever point he wants to deal with first from those notes. Hopefully it will be something other than the word “rapture” not being in the Bible.
Because this post is being opened for a discussion between myself and my opponent, to be named soon, I will not be accepting outside comments until our discussion has concluded. If outside comments are submitted they will not be posted. When the discussion is concluded your comments, questions and observations will be most welcome.
David,
I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to explain that one.
It is a very basic question, that is part of the six statements made in Daniel 9: 24-27, 1. to finish the trasgression, 2. to make an end of sins, 3. to make reconciliation for iniquity,4. to bring in everlasting righteousness,5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, 6. to aniont the most holy. The root question of the “catching away” or as some refer the “rapture” one must frist determine ” is Gods work on earth complete? To clearly see that his work is not complete one must look at what Daniel was shown. Has the Transgression been finished? Has sin ended? Has reconciliation for iniquity been completed? Has everlasting righteousness been broughr in? Has the vision been closed? Has the most holy been anionted?
It is important to remember that Daniel is recieving information on the nation of his people not the church. The chuch does not yet exisit as it was a mystery to the old testement saints. My question again is for you to show me ” when was everlasting rigtheousness brought in? I certainly do not see it anywhere in this world. When was sin ended? Once again I do not see that these have happened
So please if Gods work down here is complete when did these things take place?
David, Thank you for clarifying your question. I sorry that I did not understand what you were saying. You are correct that church did not yet exist in the days of Daniel, yet does that fact therefore nullify any prophecy foretelling its coming? I think not. No more than any prophecy that foretold the coming of the Messiah, or that Christ would be victorious over Satan. We must be very careful not to discount prophecy and it’s meaning. Some prophecies are two-fold in their nature – meaning they had an immediate fulfilling in the Israelite people, and a future meaning in the first coming of Christ. Daniels prophecy of the 70 weeks in chapter 9 is one that has many denominations baffled, and to fit their doctrine they must twist them into saying something that neither the prophet, nor God ever meant for them to say. Can we know the truth? Absolutely (John 8:32). So lets take a look again at the 70 weeks…..
The context of Daniel chapter 9 shows the prophet praying to God for restoration of the Israelite people and the temple. Daniel knows of Jeremiah’s prophecy that said their captivity would last 70 years (Jeremiah 25:11-12). The 70 years began with the first carrying away in 606 and ended at 536 with Cyrus, king of Persia’s decree to release the Jews.
Daniel prays to God for deliverance (Daniel 9:16-17), and the Lord answers him through the sending of the angel Gabriel (vs. 22 and following). Gabriel gives Daniel a message from God that the temple will be rebuilt, but even more significant is the fact that the Messiah will come (Matthew 12:6).
The time table begins – Vs. 25 – from the going forth of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem UNTIL (’til) Messiah the Prince, there shall be 7 weeks and 62 weeks.
These weeks represent prophetic years or literal years UNTIL the Messiah – UNTIL Jesus Christ comes. In other words, not Christ’s birth but the beginning of His ministry on earth.
7+62=69weeks x 7days in one week = 483 years UNTIL the beginning of Christ’s ministry.
When did the clock start ticking? Gabriel said, “STARTING with the command to restore and build Jerusalem!” (Dan. 9:25)
When was this date? When Artaxerxes, king of Persia gave commandment for Ezra the prophet to restore and rebuild (Ezra 9:9). That date was 457BC!
So 457BC – 483 prophetic years = 26AD! The EXACT year that Jesus Christ (Messiah Prince) began His ministry! (Luke 3:1, 23).
Luke 2:23 says that Jesus was about 30 years of age when He began His ministry. He was born several months before Herod the Great died which would be 5BC. 5BC + 26AD = 31 or about 30.
Gabriel then tells Daniel in verse 26 that “AFTER” the Messiah comes, the final week (7 days/years) STARTS. He does not tell us exactyly when, just “AFTER” His coming/anointiing. “AFTER” His ministry begins.
In verse 27 Gabriel goes on to tell Daniel “IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK” certain things will occur. (1) Messiah is cut off – a reference to Christ’s crucifixion; (2) A Covenant is established – (Matthew 20:28); and (3) The end of the sacificial system and law of Moses (Hebr. 10:8-18; Matt. 27:50-51).
So all these things occurred in that period of time when Jesus Christ was upon the earth, at His cruxifixion, and resurrection.
The same is true of verse 24 – which you ask about WHEN will these things happen. You don’t believe that they have yet happened because you are taking the text literally. Neither Gabriel or God is saying that at this ‘Time’ from 26AD to 30AD – He is NOT saying that sin will literally end, that righteosness will be worldwide.
God is saying through Gabriel that when Jesus Christ comes into the world the first time, HE will bring about a system that will take away sin once and for all, that will bring about a system of righteousness as a pattern for all people to follow.
These six things mentioned in verse 24 are dealt with during the 70weeks prophecy. Therefore, they MUST have been fulfilled in the first century at the time that Jesus Christ began and completed His ministry!
(1) “To finish the transgression” – The Hebrew word for “finish” means “shutting up, sealing, covering.” It is a figurative designation for FORGIVENESS of sins/transgressions/iniquities. Isaiah 53 speaks of Jesus Christ as the suffering servant who was wounded for OUR transgressions, bruised for OUR iniquities. There is therefore no doubt that Jesus Christ has fulfilled this portion of the prophecy at the cross as He established covering or forgiveness of sins by His own sacrifice.
(2) “To make an end of sins” – If you will notice, the first three things are one and the same. On Calvaries cross, Jesus Christ made forgiveness of sins possible, our iniquities were removed and reconciliation became possible. (2 Corinthians 5:21; Isaiah 53:11).
(3) “To make reconciliation for iniquity” –
(4) “To bring in everlasting righteousness” – Paul tells us in Romans 3:21-26 that “from the law A righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnesses by the law and the PROPHETS; even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto ALL them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is IN CHRIST JESUS……”
The Gospel system of religion was ushered in by Jesus Christ in the first century to establish a pattern of righteousness for all men and women in the world. Not just for the Jews, but for everyone. This system of righteousness is “everlasting” – or age lasting – until the second and final return of Jesus when all will be judged and divided into their eternal states and the universe will be destroyed.
(5) “To seal up the vision and prophecy” – This has to do with visions and prophecies that deal with Jesus Christ. After Jesus ascended into heaven, all prophecies concerning the Messiah, were sealed, in other words, fulfilled. There is no need for predictions concerning Jesus (Matthew 11:13). The only prophecy concerning Jesus is His second and final coming.
(6) “To anoint the most Holy” – this of course is a reference to Jesus Christ in the first century, and the work He did in remitting our sins, and making reconciliation possible. Hebrews 9: 3, 6, 12, 14) show us that for all mankind He obtained eternal redemption “through His own blood” having entered the holy place upon His ascension.
From the context of the 70 weeks, the things mentioned in verse 24 have been fulfilled. They are not yet to be fulfilled, but have already done so. We must be very careful not to accept literally words used by the prophets, when they are speaking of a prophecy. Such prophecies are in many cases to be determined figuratively.
But we must also keep them in the context of time in which they are meant to be understood. And the prophecy of the 70 weeks is meant to be understood as taking place at the beginning of Christ’s ministry with it’s completion in 70AD at the destruction of Jerusalem. NOT a future event of our day.
Very nice presentation from a very good student of reading the Word of God.
Transgression, while the “Lamb ” certainly put a cover on it, again it has not yet been sealed. When there is no more transgression then and only then will it be sealed.Israel has never reccived her Messiah, they rejected Him, they are still in transgession.
To forgive sin by fullfing the Lev. Law of the Kinsman Redeemer( Jesus met all four requirements) and paid the price for sin. But please tell me you know that ther is a difference between “make an end and to forgive it.God is not limited by time ” I see things that are not as though they were”, so again tell me wnen did sin end.
In fact satan is the “prince of the air”, the god of this age.
I have no doubt that you have the same issue with Him ( not as a svavior) that the Jews had. When He read from Isiah, and closed the scroll in mid sentence,He had offered them the Kingdom promised to Abraham, they rejected it and the scroll has a competion to the verse, and it moves from suffering servent to conquering Messiah. Again the Lord read only the frist part of the verse, when did he read or complete the last. In fact Isreal was not a nation again untill 1948.
” My Kingdom is not of this world”, ” I will come again and recieve you to myself” in like manner.When the Jew, Isreal, accept their King He will be annointed, He is currently serving as our High Preist. While sin has been defeated, it does not mean it has stopped, all we must do is look arround. God is time He looks at all time as a hole, and sees things that are not as though they were, Look with your heart not your mind.
David,
You touched on many things in your response. As I said, you MUST KEEP the context of Daniel 9. If you remove what Gabriel is saying from it’s context then you are going to come up with a skewed view of things like you have done.
The prophesy of the 70 weeks gives the time frame when those 6 things will occur. They are not yet future – they have been fulfilled. All of them.
Israel has already been a nation. God’s promise to them was fulfilled in the book of Joshua. They made the choice to disobey God and therefore lost their land. They are no longer God’s chosen. Only those who follow the Messiah (both Jew and Gentile) are His chosen today. The 1948 land grab for Israel was man-made, not God given. The problems that the Jews face today are their own, because they refuse to accept Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah. They also refuse to accept that God has chosen ALL men from every race to be His chosen. They also refuse to accept that the Messiah will NEVER reign in Jerusalem, or on the literal throne of David. Therefore, they will continue to have problems in this life, as punishment for their disobedience.
As long as humanity lives upon the earth, sin will exist. God never said that it would end. What God did say was that He would give to us a way to end it, and that is through the righteousness that is in following the Law of Christ, and the salvation found only in Him. The only time that sin will cease, is at the very end of this existence, after Judgment Day, when everyone is divided between heaven and hell for all eternity. Until that time, sin will continue. As will pain, evil, suffering, temptation, trials.
I will continue to look with both my mind and heart, for the heart alone can fool us.
There is none so blind as those who WILL NOT see. I am thankfull that you at least have confessed the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior. There are some real issues with your stance, and untill you look at it through the Sprit you will not see.Isreal had not been a nation for almost 2600 years. They were given thru Abraham a “land grant”, while they lost the land they never lost the grant. Its kind of like having something taken from you and the Judge returns it to you. You are missing so much of the nature of God, so much in fact it is hard to for me to comprehend. Now IF I hear you correctly (I want to be right here) God has broken His word to Abraham. It is my conviction that while men break their word, repeatedly, God never breaks His, never! God promised to give the land thru, Abraham, to Issac the son of the promised seed. He promisaed to make them a mighty nation For you to say man gave back the land is to ignore the that which was spoken ; what shall the nations say that a nation be born in a day, yea in a space of that day.
Now we do know that God set her aside and grafted on a new branch, the church, but lets not make Him a “dead beat dad”, no he will keep His committments to His promise. In the Word, Amos 9: 11-15 it is to me very clear as to what He will bring about, for no one or nation comes to power accept it be ordained of God, and for His glory. As to His never returning to the earth, Zec. 14: 4 proposes a problem for you, It is clear that He will return “and His feet shall stand upon the mount of Olives”. Now you can say that He assended from there so thats been fullfilled, but history does not record that the mountain ever split and fell to the east and to the west, no great valley is seen, and no one has ever reported that any part has been removed toward the north and south, if it has not happened, then it is yet to happen. Again God is time He is everything and everything is of Him. It is clear from Joel 3: 12 that He will set at jehosaphat and judge. It is clear from 1st Thess 5: 9-10 that God has not appointed us to wrath and that “alive or dead we should live together with Him. In order for anyone to sing “o death where is your sting where is your victory” that anyone must never taste death for even though we ARE DEAD YET SHALL WE LIVE, SPAKES OF THE STING OF DEATH. Only those who will be caught up alive can sing the song. ” I will come again and recieve you to myself” when we are recieved we are at someone elses place we recieve a guest or we are recieved as a guest, we”ve had to go some where. As far as the 1000 years you again must face Rev 20: 4 , it claerly states that we see the souls who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and the word of God( Jesus) and had not worshiped the beast and had not recieved his mark, in the forhead or hands, and that they lived and reigned with Him for 1000 years.
History nor any event has ever shown this to have happened. In vs 7 it again states the 1000 years and then satan is loosed to again decieve the nations. Now I understand you are convinced that the book of Rev. has been fullfilled yet history itself proves you wrong.
We still fight againist those things unseen, we still see sin, we still see this world pertty much as it has always been. We see the falling away we see the livung Word of God declared dead, we see the growing of the NWO, we see the ntions run head long toward war, and the coming of the nations againist Isreal, just as the “THE WORD OF GOD PROCLAIMS”. All History is written in advance and not all of history is yet complete, to therefore conclude that
God is thrugh working is completely without merit. It should therfore be noted that we not look up but just sit and wait? I think not.Paul makes it so clear that the “man of sin, that son of perdition can not come to power untill that which restrains him is removed. God thru the Holy Sprit is still bringing in “the fullness of the gentile”. The fact still remains that before He brought in the fullness of the gentile he kept His word and offered the Kingdom to His people the Jew, while He knew the answer they would give Him He kept His word, He will still keep it for He hath spoken and therefore it is. The nation of Isreal has been reborn that fig tree once again blooms and at some point in time there are some of His people the Jews who will look upon Him whom they had periced, and know Him.
In conclusion I have a hard time finding the 144,000 and I can not find the two witnesses ever lying dead in the streets and then rising up. You are asigning work left to be completed as to work done, there is no record of anything you say is done, none.
I strongly sujest that you get yourself a copy of all of Rev. Larkins work and continue to study asking that the Sprit reveal to you that which is clearly hidden. I am sure that I have not convinced you, but the Word of God is so clear concerning the things of Him to which it speaks I hope you will find the truth. As Paul Harvey used to say,good day.
David, David, David,My, my, your posts get rather confusing. This thing with the “Fullness of the Gentiles” this is the second time you have mentioned it, and I have heard before, but am not sure what you are talking about. I would like to know more about this, if you don’t mind teaching me. Now then, To try in some way to clean up your response so that others may be able to understand it — I will quote you and then answer it. David said – “Israel had not been a nation for almost 2600 years. They were given thru Abraham a “land grant,” while they lost the land they never lost the grant.” My Answer – God made a covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3) to make a great nation from him, to bless him and to make his name great. Through Abraham ALL families of the earth would be blessed. Genesis 17:8 says that God would give to Abraham and his seed after him, all the land of Canaan. Now then, Abraham was given a two-fold promise [covenant]. (1) a Nation/land covenant [physical] and (2) a Spiritual seed covenant [spiritual]. The spiritual seed covenant that said “all families of the earth would be blessed, is a reference to Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:16). The first part of the covenant, Nation/Land was fulfilled in the Hebrew nation that came through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel). To preserve this promise, God sent Jacob and his household into Egypt where they lived 215 years building their numbers (Genesis 46:27). 70 souls went down into Egypt and 215 years later, Moses brought over 2 million out. But in order for there to be a Nation, they had to have a law, as well as land. So God through Moses gave them a Law, and the land. But before they took the land, many died in the wilderness because of their unbelief [disobedience] (Numbers 14:29-35). After 40 years of cleansing [cleaning out the disobedient] God re-established His covenant with the younger generation, and prepared them for entering the Promised Land. Deuteronomy 28 we find the cursings and blessings that God gives to them. They will be blessed and keep the land as long as they obey God and keep ALL His commandments. but they will lose the land and be cursed if they disobey. Joshua then takes them over the Jordan to Jericho and they begin the process of taking the land that God has promised to give them. 20 years, the Israelites spend destroying its inhabitants, until they get tired of it and are satisfied with what they have – which is not the entirety of the land that God had promised them, nor had they killed everyone as commanded. God said that those they allowed to live would become thorns in their side, which they did (Josh. 23:13).But it is interesting to note what the Holy Spirit says about the Promised Land and the covenant that God made with Abraham – “…ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that NOT ONE THING HAS FAILED of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you; ALL are come to pass unto you, and NOT ONE THING HAS FAILED thereof…” (Josh. 23:14). God completed His promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He had made them a nation, gave them a law and the land. It was the people who failed to take everything that God said He would give them. Not until David and Solomon would the entirety of the land belong to the Israelites! But again, God has completed His part – He has lived up to His end of the covenant – in order for the Jews to keep it, they MUST obey God. But they do not – eventually they have bad kings that cause them to serve idols, and God sends the prophets to remind them of their part of the covenant – they will lose the land. Which indeed they did, when God allows Assyeria to take the northern part of the land, a part that they never get back. Then later the Babylonians take the rest of the land, and the Jews are scattered across the nations as slaves for 70 years. When in 536BC Cyrus, king of Persia allows a small remanent to return and rebuild their city, it is basically what they have today. God lived up to His end of the covenant – the Jews did not. therefore, men in trying to make the Jewish people God’s chosen, have intervened to give them back the land of the Old Testament promise. But God will never allow it to happen, because they are ‘antichrist.’ That was the purpose behind 70AD, punishment for their refusal to give up the Old Law and become New Testament Christians.
that is a quick and brief history lesson as to why Israel is no longer a chosen nation of God, and why they will never get ALL the land back.
David said, “As to His never returning to the earth, Zech. 14:4 proposes a problem for you.”
My answer – No, the problem is yours, because you know not how to properly interpret the Scriptures. The Old Testament is past – over with – finished – complete. ALL of the prophecies had to do either immediately with the Israelites or in the future at Christ’s FIRST coming. And since He has come and gone, we can’t look at those anymore, because they have been fulfilled. The problem that YOU have is that you take prophetic language literally, when it is meant to be taken figuratively! The context of Zech 14:1-9 has NOTHING to do with Premillennial doctrine. This text is describing the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD and the judgment of the Lord upon the Jews for their refuse to accept Christ as Messiah.
David said – “As far as the 1000 years you again must face Revelation 20:4, it clearly states that we see the souls who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and the word of God, etc. etc….In vs. 7 it again states the 1000 years and then Satan is loosed to again deceive the nations, Now I understand you are convinced that the book of Revelation has been fulfilled, yet history itself proves you wrong.”
My answer – How has history itself prove me wrong? Give us the proof. Where’s the beef? Again, you fail to properly interpret the Scriptures. Like the prophets of old who wrote in figurative language, so too John writes figuratively – NOT literally. He tells us in the first chapter that this is the way he is going to write the book- figuratively. So 1000 years is no more literal, than is 144,000, or the mark of the beast, or the harlot. Are you going to argue that Revelation is to be taken literal? If so, you must then admit that you believe Jesus Christ is a literal Lamb!
I’m not sure, but I think I’ve gone over this before, but for your sake, I will do it again, it takes some people longer than others for things to sink in. lol.
The number 1,000, in Revelation 20:4, 7 represents an undetermined amount of time. If you will remember, in Genesis 3:15 God foretold (prophesy), that Jesus would bruise the head of Satan, while Satan bruised the heal of Jesus. This bruising is again figurative as is Satan’s head which represents his power. Jesus began to bruise Satan’s head (take away his power) when He died upon the cross (power over spiritual death). Secondly, Satan’s power to use nations to persecute Christians, was removed at the destruction of Rome, this is the reference in Revelation 20:4, that he is bound for an undetermined amount of time from using the nations to destroy Christianity. Then shortly before Christ’s second and final return in the clouds to Judge ALL humanity, Satan will be released for a short period of time to once again deceive the nations. When that will be and for how long he will have the power, no one knows.
As for the “son of perdition,” and “man of sin” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 – that is a description of the Pope and the Catholic Church, not some mythical “antichrist.”
It is good that believers are saved by the Grace of God thru the perfect live of Jesus Christ, His scarafice and His rising to live having defeated Death, Hell and the Grave. That I am still a sinner on my best day, but that He has pardoned me, He took my place(as He did for Barnabas) , so shall He do for me , and I praise Him for it, and thank Him for it. Realize completely, without the Kinsman Redeemer I would not be saved!
Mike, you do a very good job at chapter and verse. But which one of us is wrong here will remain a question for the near furture.The bible is the Word of God, written as the Holy Sprit and The Lord spoke. Most are to the Jew, some to the Church, and some parts of each to the gentile. It is Gods purpose thru the Ages, Times and Seasons. I truly feel for you that one so brillant can only see God in this finished box. If you do not see the leaves falling from the tree, that fall is at hand, you are telling me that from the day of the church,satan has not been persecuting the church! Where have you been, we are under attack dayily.
All that aside I do in fact take that in the word that is literal,as literal,and thats our difference. Thanks so much for the dicourse
David, Saved
David,
Thanks again for your continued discussion. I too believe in the grace and mercy of God that has been imparted to the entire world (Jew and Gentile) through the perfect sacrifice of His only-begotten Son Jesus Christ. Without which, we would all still be in our sins, and without hope (1 Corinthians 15:10-19). I however am no longer a sinner as no true Christian is. I may commit sin occassionally, but that does not make me a sinner in the Bible sense of the word.
I had hoped that you would help me understand this “fullness of the Gentiles” thing that you spoke of earlier.
As for the devil persecuting the church – I didn’t mean to make it sound like he has never done so, because that would be untrue. He was able to use the Roman Empire to persecute the church, but when the Roman Empire fell, that was the beginning of his binding, from being able to use that tool. We are talking about Satan being bound, not men. The text of Revelation is talking about Satan using NATIONS, not individuals to persecute the church. Two different things.
As for taking the Bible literal – How do you deal with parables, allegories, simile, metaphor, metonymy, hyperbole, proverbs, which are ALL used throughout the Bible, and are NOT to be taken literally? You are correct to say that there is a difference between the two of us, that I accept BOTH literal and figurative language, and that you take EVERYTHING literal, which makes the Holy Spirit out to be a deceiver.
Oh I am so sorry there is no deception in the Holy Sprit, nor the Son , nor the Father, all is perfect with God. As far as the parra;les what does He say, I speak in parrables lest everyone would understand. When He speaks of the sower of the seed, it is the Lord that is the sower, and the Word of God that is being sown, and the fruit thereof the going forth of the Word, and others being converted, that my friend is literal. When He soeaks of the wise virgins who keep their lamps lit, that is literal for they stay ready to be recieved of the Lord, when He speaks of the prodical son that to is literal, for heaven rejoices when one comes home, and we come home to our intened estate when we accept the Lord, for He reclaimed for us the esstate that Adam lost, thru the Lev. Law of the Kinsman Redeemer. As to sin, “in my flesh dewells no good thing, when I do good I find that evil is present with me, those things I would do each day, I do not, those things I would not do, that I do” Its the two creations, the flesh is sinfull but the Sprit is not perfect(yet) but rather “accounted as” for God sees those things which are not as though they were. Its really no different than the colts and the cardinals just last night, with time left on the clock, the colts up by 21 points were the cardinals not allready defeated, but the victory was not declared untill tme ran out.
As to the “fullness of the gentiles I promise to respond to you soon, in the mean time please go get all the work you can find by Rev. Clarence Larkin, please, for I tell you that in that day which is to come there will be many taken whom many thought would not go and many left whom many thought would have gone. History it self declares that God is not finished with His work, While it is complete, and victory is certain time has not ran out. While He spoke it and thus declared it complete, remember He sees those things that are not as though they already were. My heart fills with joy that faith in Him and the finished works of the Corss hath made me free, thru no works of my own least i boast. Please reply and I will send you info on the “fullness of the gentile”.
God Bless, David